Comments for Zone5 http://zone5.org ...on the edge between Nature and Culture Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:34:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 Comment on A visit to the Eden Project by Liam Murtagh http://zone5.org/2008/08/15/a-visit-to-the-eden-project/#comment-37085 Liam Murtagh Sun, 17 Aug 2008 08:49:10 +0000 http://zone5.org/?p=222#comment-37085 <p>Graham, Around this time last year I also visited the Eden Project and then went on to participate on the Forest Gardening course at ART in Devon. I had bought a copy of Richard Mabey's book 'Fencing Paradise - The Uses and Abuses of Plants' some months previously and had only started to read in a day or so before going to Eden. Amazingly I only realised when I started to read it that its content is partly a reflection on the author's visits to the Eden Project. (I know you should always scan the contents page when buying a book!). It is really less about the Eden Project and more a book about the relationshop between the human and plant world and about how the plant world / landscapes have been 'exploited' in every sense of the word. He cleverly links his visits to Eden to these broader themes - his view of the eden project is a complex one. Towards the end of the book he discusses 'sustainable development' and come to the view that there are really very few examples of human interaction with the planet which could be regarded as 'sustainable'. Interestingly he says "... some experiments in forest gardening and permaculture come close" Taken together, the combination of my visit to the Eden Project and to the Forest Garden at ART as well as the experience of reading Mabey's book were experiences and perpectives which all complemented each other. I would recommend the combination for anyone with an interest or involved in an activitity involving plants.</p> <p>Am sure, you Graham might agree.</p> <p>Liam</p> Graham,
Around this time last year I also visited the Eden Project and then went on to participate on the Forest Gardening course at ART in Devon. I had bought a copy of Richard Mabey’s book ‘Fencing Paradise - The Uses and Abuses of Plants’ some months previously and had only started to read in a day or so before going to Eden. Amazingly I only realised when I started to read it that its content is partly a reflection on the author’s visits to the Eden Project. (I know you should always scan the contents page when buying a book!). It is really less about the Eden Project and more a book about the relationshop between the human and plant world and about how the plant world / landscapes have been ‘exploited’ in every sense of the word. He cleverly links his visits to Eden to these broader themes - his view of the eden project is a complex one. Towards the end of the book he discusses ’sustainable development’ and come to the view that there are really very few examples of human interaction with the planet which could be regarded as ’sustainable’. Interestingly he says “… some experiments in forest gardening and permaculture come close”
Taken together, the combination of my visit to the Eden Project and to the Forest Garden at ART as well as the experience of reading Mabey’s book were experiences and perpectives which all complemented each other. I would recommend the combination for anyone with an interest or involved in an activitity involving plants.

Am sure, you Graham might agree.

Liam

]]> Comment on Book Review: Climate Code Red-the case for Emergency Action by Graham http://zone5.org/2008/08/10/book-review-climate-code-red-the-case-for-emergency-action/#comment-37083 Graham Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:13:26 +0000 http://zone5.org/?p=206#comment-37083 <p>I just got it via the publishers at ScribePublications: http://www.scribepublications.com.au/</p> I just got it via the publishers at ScribePublications:
http://www.scribepublications.com.au/

]]> Comment on Book Review: Climate Code Red-the case for Emergency Action by Susan Butler http://zone5.org/2008/08/10/book-review-climate-code-red-the-case-for-emergency-action/#comment-37081 Susan Butler Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:40:52 +0000 http://zone5.org/?p=206#comment-37081 <p>I enjoyed the quote from Spratt & Sutton's book, paraphrased: [Current political skills in the art of compromise (among established players) are obsolete.] I agree. Those players themselves are obsolete. A quote from Dimitri Orlov's "Reinventing Collapse," previously reviewed on this blog, is illustrative: "The best alternative by far is to reduce energy consumption by shutting down all non-vital parts of the economy...Since such a revolution is not politically possible, the only remaining alternative is economic and political collapse." It seems to me that GHG projections or mitigaton plans that go as far as 2050, such as the Stern Review, are useless, since the world is almost certain to be a very different place before then. Likewise efforts aimed at population reduction (likely to take place on its own) which historically require either goverment enforcement, or massive projects to educate and empower women, are not possible in the short time frame required. Both the book reviewed and Graham's suggestions assume intact govenment able to reform planning permissions, et al. This may be so for a while. What's needed is an unprecedented event to shock the world into emergency mode. So far its been all talk and some bad weather. We may see such a shock event this winter with high mortality and mass migrations out of cold climates in the developed world due to unaffordable heating fuel. Here in the States, aware Vermonters are freaking out and setting up community-based emergency planning, while governments sleep-walk. I particularly enjoyed the quote, "a youthful willingness to live with uncertainty and to view the prevention of climate catastrophe as an invigorating process of innovation, learning and imagination." If conditions permit, this attitude could inspire currently unthinkable measures. The obsolete economy along with overpopulation (this an ecological certainty) will fade of themselves. We need to stop adding momentum to the mindset of business as usual and instead focus on putting into place the skeletal invisible structures, along with the first steps towards real productivity in alternative local economies, including independent financial institutions, in the time remaining of relative peace and prosperity, and afterwards. In the nature of things we can't possibly keep emitting GHG at past rates, nor keep growing population. Therefore mitigating climate catastrophe is part and parcel of reimagining world culture.</p> I enjoyed the quote from Spratt & Sutton’s book, paraphrased: [Current political skills in the art of compromise (among established players) are obsolete.]
I agree. Those players themselves are obsolete. A quote from Dimitri Orlov’s “Reinventing Collapse,” previously reviewed on this blog, is illustrative: “The best alternative by far is to reduce energy consumption by shutting down all non-vital parts of the economy…Since such a revolution is not politically possible, the only remaining alternative is economic and political collapse.”
It seems to me that GHG projections or mitigaton plans that go as far as 2050, such as the Stern Review, are useless, since the world is almost certain to be a very different place before then. Likewise efforts aimed at population reduction (likely to take place on its own) which historically require either goverment enforcement, or massive projects to educate and empower women, are not possible in the short time frame required.
Both the book reviewed and Graham’s suggestions assume intact govenment able to reform planning permissions, et al. This may be so for a while. What’s needed is an unprecedented event to shock the world into emergency mode. So far its been all talk and some bad weather. We may see such a shock event this winter with high mortality and mass migrations out of cold climates in the developed world due to unaffordable heating fuel. Here in the States, aware Vermonters are freaking out and setting up community-based emergency planning, while governments sleep-walk.
I particularly enjoyed the quote, “a youthful willingness to live with uncertainty and to view the prevention of climate catastrophe as an invigorating process of innovation, learning and imagination.” If conditions permit, this attitude could inspire currently unthinkable measures.
The obsolete economy along with overpopulation (this an ecological certainty) will fade of themselves. We need to stop adding momentum to the mindset of business as usual and instead focus on putting into place the skeletal invisible structures, along with the first steps towards real productivity in alternative local economies, including independent financial institutions, in the time remaining of relative peace and prosperity, and afterwards. In the nature of things we can’t possibly keep emitting GHG at past rates, nor keep growing population. Therefore mitigating climate catastrophe is part and parcel of reimagining world culture.

]]> Comment on Book Review: Climate Code Red-the case for Emergency Action by Rob http://zone5.org/2008/08/10/book-review-climate-code-red-the-case-for-emergency-action/#comment-37080 Rob Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:11:19 +0000 http://zone5.org/?p=206#comment-37080 <p>Thanks for that... be great to have a link in the piece to say where we can order it from?</p> Thanks for that… be great to have a link in the piece to say where we can order it from?

]]> Comment on Fruit and Nuts at Derryduff by Liam Murtagh http://zone5.org/2008/08/09/fruit-and-nuts-at-derryduff/#comment-37072 Liam Murtagh Sat, 09 Aug 2008 19:23:51 +0000 http://zone5.org/?p=194#comment-37072 <p>Graham, This is my first communication with you since you stayed in Clones some years back! Well done on your work since and in particular on the zone5 website. I attended the course with Martin Crawford in the Agroforestry Research Trust (ART) last year and enjoyed it and would highly recomend it. It is located on the grounds of Dartington Estate and not far from Schumacher College and Totnes - well known as the main centre of the Transition movement. There is a lovely walk along the River Dart between Dartington Hall and Totnes. Martin's forest garden there is magnificent. It is much larger than Robert Hart's. I well remember picking and eating the rubus tricolour fruit which surrounds the entrance to the garden. Two of the key features that struck me were (1) the emphasis he put on good quality windbreaks and their positive effect on the range of edible plants in the forest garden and (2) instead of a straw mulch which Robert Hart used Martin uses a wide range of useful ground cover plants such as mints.</p> <p>I just got a copy of the 08/09 catalogue from Martin. It is also available on the ART website which has useful info on forest gardening and agofforestry. The ART website is www.agroforestry.co.uk</p> <p>I have been through the experience of the seperation of ornamentals, veg path, orchard and lawn. Now having been to ART and having read the forest gardening books by Robert Hart and one by Patrick Whitefield I am convinced that forest gardening approach is the way we should use much of our garden spaces. (There is a clip of the late Robert Hart on YouTube)</p> <p>Re my own patch in Co Monaghan - the trees (oak, ash hazel for coppicing) which you planted for us , have done very well despite an early setback from a number of wandering goats. The fruit trees I neglected a bit because of a focus for quite a number of years on house restoration. I notice quite a crop of cobnuts on one of the nut trees this year. I am now planning to work getting the ground ready for the shrub and perennial layer (long overdue). In the coming months I am going to start work on cutting back much of the bramble and blackthorn and putting down some clearance mulch and begin to apply some of what I learned from Martin Crawford.</p> <p>Liam</p> Graham,
This is my first communication with you since you stayed in Clones some years back! Well done on your work since and in particular on the zone5 website.
I attended the course with Martin Crawford in the Agroforestry Research Trust (ART) last year and enjoyed it and would highly recomend it. It is located on the grounds of Dartington Estate and not far from Schumacher College and Totnes - well known as the main centre of the Transition movement. There is a lovely walk along the River Dart between Dartington Hall and Totnes. Martin’s forest garden there is magnificent. It is much larger than Robert Hart’s. I well remember picking and eating the rubus tricolour fruit which surrounds the entrance to the garden. Two of the key features that struck me were (1) the emphasis he put on good quality windbreaks and their positive effect on the range of edible plants in the forest garden and (2) instead of a straw mulch which Robert Hart used Martin uses a wide range of useful ground cover plants such as mints.

I just got a copy of the 08/09 catalogue from Martin. It is also available on the ART website which has useful info on forest gardening and agofforestry. The ART website is http://www.agroforestry.co.uk

I have been through the experience of the seperation of ornamentals, veg path, orchard and lawn. Now having been to ART and having read the forest gardening books by Robert Hart and one by Patrick Whitefield I am convinced that forest gardening approach is the way we should use much of our garden spaces. (There is a clip of the late Robert Hart on YouTube)

Re my own patch in Co Monaghan - the trees (oak, ash hazel for coppicing) which you planted for us , have done very well despite an early setback from a number of wandering goats. The fruit trees I neglected a bit because of a focus for quite a number of years on house restoration. I notice quite a crop of cobnuts on one of the nut trees this year. I am now planning to work getting the ground ready for the shrub and perennial layer (long overdue). In the coming months I am going to start work on cutting back much of the bramble and blackthorn and putting down some clearance mulch and begin to apply some of what I learned from Martin Crawford.

Liam

]]> Comment on Permaculture at Derryduff by Rob http://zone5.org/2008/08/06/permaculture-at-derryduff/#comment-37071 Rob Sat, 09 Aug 2008 09:14:01 +0000 http://zone5.org/?p=187#comment-37071 <p>nice pond Graham... great to see you are now a member of the West Cork 'pond set'. Big Jonny D indeed, you'll get him a reputation! Well done, great to see you don't spend the entire summer holiday on Blackpool Pleasure Beach...</p> nice pond Graham… great to see you are now a member of the West Cork ‘pond set’. Big Jonny D indeed, you’ll get him a reputation! Well done, great to see you don’t spend the entire summer holiday on Blackpool Pleasure Beach…

]]> Comment on About by Pernilla Landstöm/West http://zone5.org/about/#comment-37070 Pernilla Landstöm/West Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:15:40 +0000 #comment-37070 <p>Kia ora(greeting in Maaori)Graham! just found you on the wide wide web..... Finding myself in the land down under Aotearoa- New Zealand theese days, I finally resived my residency here, weehej! Your home looks amazing, now its long ago since I visited. Still from time to time I send you my thoughts to you and all the other beautiful people in Eire. I'm living on the south island in our home built house truck and yurt. I love it here.At the moment I'm buizze winter pruning apple trees.People here shout out in joy when I mention the Action plan and Kinsale.The word has spread! Much Aroha(love) from Pernilla</p> Kia ora(greeting in Maaori)Graham!
just found you on the wide wide web…..
Finding myself in the land down under Aotearoa- New Zealand theese days, I finally resived my residency here, weehej!
Your home looks amazing, now its long ago since I visited. Still from time to time I send you my thoughts to you and all the other beautiful people in Eire. I’m living on the south island in our home built house truck and yurt. I love it here.At the moment I’m buizze winter pruning apple trees.People here shout out in joy when I mention the Action plan and Kinsale.The word has spread!
Much Aroha(love) from Pernilla

]]> Comment on Zone5 Claims Victory in Science vs Religion Debate by Graham http://zone5.org/2008/08/01/zone5-claims-victory-in-science-vs-religion-debate/#comment-37068 Graham Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:10:25 +0000 http://zone5.org/?p=147#comment-37068 <p>Wallace Town has a post on this discussion- and a nice photo-cartoon- here:</p> <p>http://markwallace32.blogspot.com/2008/08/woo-woo-wound-two.html</p> Wallace Town has a post on this discussion- and a nice photo-cartoon- here:

http://markwallace32.blogspot.com/2008/08/woo-woo-wound-two.html

]]> Comment on Permaculture at Derryduff by Klaus http://zone5.org/2008/08/06/permaculture-at-derryduff/#comment-37067 Klaus Wed, 06 Aug 2008 22:02:16 +0000 http://zone5.org/?p=187#comment-37067 <p>The pond looks great Graham. Who needs to live by the sea? Speaking of local farmers, I met one who is coming to the course next year. I think this is a very good sign. Maybe they'll start providing us all with lovely seasonal veg. See you at the Green Gathering. Klaus</p> The pond looks great Graham. Who needs to live by the sea? Speaking of local farmers, I met one who is coming to the course next year. I think this is a very good sign. Maybe they’ll start providing us all with lovely seasonal veg.
See you at the Green Gathering.
Klaus

]]> Comment on Alanna Moore Threatens Legal Action by Susan Butler http://zone5.org/2008/07/29/alanna-moore-threatens-legal-action/#comment-37065 Susan Butler Wed, 06 Aug 2008 04:09:17 +0000 http://zone5.org/2008/07/29/alanna-moore-threatens-legal-action/#comment-37065 <p>A quote from Neils Bohr, emminent scientist: "In our [scientific] descriptions of nature the purpose is not to disclose the real essence of the phenomea, but only to track down, so far as it is possible, [provable] relations between the manifold aspects of our experience." Permaculture design places elements, as far as possible, into beneficial relations with one another. The "real essence," the transrational, can be found (and always has been found) in religion, in music, in experiences of the transcendent: beauty, truth, love. And possibly even trolls. (as poetic metaphor!)</p> A quote from Neils Bohr, emminent scientist:
“In our [scientific] descriptions of nature the purpose is not to disclose the real essence of the phenomea, but only to track down, so far as it is possible, [provable] relations between the manifold aspects of our experience.”
Permaculture design places elements, as far as possible, into beneficial relations with one another.
The “real essence,” the transrational, can be found (and always has been found) in religion, in music, in experiences of the transcendent: beauty, truth, love. And possibly even trolls. (as poetic metaphor!)

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