<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:slash="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/slash/"
	>

<channel>
	<title>Zone5 &#187; Atheism</title>
	<atom:link href="http://zone5.org/category/atheism/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://zone5.org</link>
	<description>...on the edge between Nature and Culture</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:50:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<language>en</language>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>Climate alarmism and the Goddess: reflections on a visit to ThinkorSwim</title>
		<link>http://zone5.org/2011/02/climate-alarmism-and-the-goddess-reflections-on-a-visit-to-thinkorswim/</link>
		<comments>http://zone5.org/2011/02/climate-alarmism-and-the-goddess-reflections-on-a-visit-to-thinkorswim/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2011 17:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[climate change]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[collapse]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Peak Oil]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Science and Rationaltiy]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zone5.org/?p=928</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If John Gibbons had any intention of trying to allay my fears that there is a strong ideological basis to much climate change activism when he accepted my recent post on climate skeptics, this was quickly forgotten. John&#8217;s appraisal of &#8230; <a href="http://zone5.org/2011/02/climate-alarmism-and-the-goddess-reflections-on-a-visit-to-thinkorswim/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If John Gibbons had any intention of trying to allay my fears that there is a strong ideological basis to much climate change activism when he accepted <a href="http://www.thinkorswim.ie/?p=1309">my recent post on climate skeptics</a>, this was quickly forgotten.
John&#8217;s appraisal of the post in the comments is that it is &#8220;a poorly argued crypto-denialist piece.&#8221;</p>

<p>I&#8217;m not quite sure what a &#8220;crypto-denialist&#8221; is but I think it means someone who claims to accept the science of AGW but actually does not- in other words, a fraud. John&#8217;s supporters also joined in with plenty of personal attacks and ad hominems:</p>

<p><span id="more-928"></span></p>

<blockquote>Mr Strouts, in not knowing even what peer-review is puts himself on the same plane as James Delingpole – bombastic argument, sweeping assertions riddled with howling factual errors (like thinking TSE to be a peer-reviewed publication, for goodness sake, how stupid can you get?).</blockquote>

<p>Now I do understand what &#8220;stupid&#8221; means; but for this charge to stick it needs to be backed up by evidence. The evidence I have for believing <em>The Skeptical Environmentalist </em> was indeed peer-reviewed comes from the <a href="http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/publications/special/harrison_peer_review_politics_and_pluralism.pdf">publisher at Cambridge university Press</a>:</p>

<blockquote>As a University Press, we insist on a peer review process
for every book we publish. It has become part of the
anti-Lomborg folklore that his book bypassed the usual
Cambridge peer review process and was cynically spirited
through the system by an ignorant social science editor.5
This is a charge that has been repeated in many of the public
and private attacks on the press, and it is unfounded. Indeed,
The Skeptical Environmentalist would never have been
published by Cambridge had it not been for peer review</blockquote>

<p>It is true that I found that link via <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Skeptical_Environmentalist">the Wikipedia entry</a> which I am informed &#8220;has been clearly generously edited either by Lomborg or members of his fan club (sorry, Wikipedia isn’t actually peer-reviewed, at least not in the academic or scientific sense of the phrase)&#8221;- but no supporting evidence of this is provided.</p>

<p>There was clearly a lot of dispute at the time over this controversial publication, and plenty of literature available looking at the attacks on the book and <a href="http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv29n1/v29n1-4.pdf">the defences</a></p>

<p>Lomborg&#8217;s book basically makes the case, with plenty of evidence, that the world may not be quite so doomed as many of us have believed, or as some environmentalist would have us think, but rather than  demonstrate actual errors, John and his friends prefer to insist that the whole thing is a con, a fraud, with each sentence and statistic carefully concocted to mislead the unwary reader and lead them into damnation as they will surely then continue to pollute the environment and destroy the planet</p>

<p>Equally, Gore&#8217;s film was also clearly controversial, and there are many reasonable (ie not &#8220;denialist&#8221;) critiques of it, such as <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2007/10/the_boring_truth.php">this one by William Connelly</a> which closely examines the court case that was taken against the film being promoted as science in schools, who concludes on the issue of exaggerating sea-level rise:</p>

<blockquote>&#8220;Pupils might get the impression that sea-level rises of up to 7m (caused by the complete melting of Greenland or half of Greenland and half of the West Antarctic shelf) could happen in the next decades. The IPCC predicts that it would take millennia for rises of that magnitude to occur. However, pupils should be aware that even smaller rises in sea level are predicted to have very serious effects. or Burton: &#8220;This is distinctly alarmist, and part of Mr Gore&#8217;s &#8216;wake-up call&#8217;&#8230; not in line with the scientific consensus.&#8221;

Yeah, I think Gore was misleading on this, and said so before.</blockquote>

<p>In the discussion below Connelly concludes &#8220;its misleading on a number of important points, so I don&#8217;t think you can call it a great intro, and I&#8217;m definitely advising against championing it&#8221;.</p>

<p>Compare this to John&#8217;s defense of the film:</p>

<blockquote>That film was a thoroughly researched, balanced and objective guide for the lay-person on climate change. Just ask the actual climate specialists over at RealClimate.org and they’ll confirm as much.

</blockquote>

<p>But if one were to take the stance of the supporters of ThinkorSwim (ToS) Connelly would also be dismissed as a stupid crypto-denialist troll. What good does that do anyone?</p>

<p>According to John and his followers, Lomborg has been proved to be a fraud; John states that Lomborg &#8220;ignores the entire canon of actual climate science&#8221;- an extraordinary statement to make since TSE in fact explicitly accepts the science of AGW, and discusses in depth the scientific consensus that human influence is warming the planet; the book is actually a discussion of how bad this is likely to be (there may be some benefits, eg. declining cold-weather deaths) and what we should do about it.</p>

<p>Lomborg takes issue with the mainstream policy recommendations of dramatic cuts in CO2 emissions, arguing that this would be too expensive, and that in any case we cannot really do that to the degree indicated because the technology for low-carbon fuels to replace fossil energy to any degree simply does not yet exist.</p>

<p>John&#8217;s errors however extend beyond simply misrepresenting his bete noir Lomborg, he also misrepresents the science in each of the cases that he refers to:</p>

<blockquote>Graham also recycles denialist guff about exaggerated threats of sea level rise. These are anything but. Quoting a solitary “recent study” is a pretty thin basis for his premise that concerns about accelerating ice melt are “doom-mongering pure and simple”. A little knowledge here is indeed dangerous. “Doom-mongering” is a serious charge. Graham may not be aware that according to GRACE gravity satellite readings, Greenland is currently losing 104-138gt per annum. That’s 104–138 BILLION TONS of ice lost per annum. Some doom-mongering (this figure is somewhat ahead of the 2007 IPCC estimate of 100gt/annum). 

</blockquote>

<p>One commentator responded:</p>

<blockquote>100 billion tons is indeed a large figure. But let’s see what that means in terms of sea level rise. The earth’s radius is about 6400 km. Earth’s surface area, use 4 pi times the radius squared; and 70% of that area is water — it comes to about 3.6 x 10^14 sq. meters. Ocean isn’t all of that, though, and I cheated a bit and looked online to get a figure of 3.35 x 10^14 sq. meters of ocean area. Let’s get back to those 100 Gtonne, or 10^17 g, of melting ice per year. As water has a density of (approx.) 1 g/cc, that comes to 10^17 cc of water, or 10^11 cubic meters. Spread that evenly over the above ocean area, and it comes to a depth of 0.3 mm. A rate of 0.3 mm per year is about 1 inch per century. Doesn’t seem to merit capital letters to me.

</blockquote>

<p>Now, whether or not these calculations are correct, it is clear from John&#8217;s hand-waving response that he had not done any calculations himself at all; he had merely seen the figure of &#8220;a lot of ice&#8221; and quoted it in a doomish kind of way, with not a clue as to what it may or may not mean for sea-level rise.</p>

<p>More astonishing still, he becomes probably the first person ever to represent temperature change in terms of percentages:</p>

<blockquote>Just in case you’re not familiar with the basic science (and I really am now beginning to wonder), the current global average surface temp. is c.14.5C. Add 4C to that in half a century and you have increased the average surface temp by over 25%. That means, briefly: zero Arctic ice, Greenland committed to collapse (the idea of this taking thousands of years in a 1000ppm+ CO2 world is fanciful in the extreme)
</blockquote>

<p>Another commentator responded:</p>

<blockquote>Using Fahrenheit, the same temperature change (58.1F to 65.3F) is a 12% increase, using Kelvin it’s about 287.6K to 291.6K, or a 1.4% increase. It really does matter where the zero is, if you are talking about percentage changes. That’s why one uses simple temperature differences when talking about climate, and not percentages.</blockquote>

<p>To his credit, John did, after two more promptings, finally admit this error; but that he could make such an off-the-wall statement is very worrying for a non-scientist commentator who states about himself:</p>

<blockquote>Guilty as charged. I’m not a scientist, and am occasionally likely to make a technical gaffe, like the one pointed out by DR. I regret the lack of precision in my language&#8230;
My stab at translating this into percentages that most people could understand was clumsy and unscientific. 
&#8230;[my]25 years working as a journalist and publisher has taught me a healthy respect for facts, and an equally healthy suspicion of ideology, in all its subtle forms. 

</blockquote>

<p>John essentially sees himself, like Delingpole, as an &#8220;interpreter of interpretations&#8221;- someone who tries to interpret science in layman&#8217;s terms most people can understand. He has been doing this for many years, yet appears to be misrepresenting the science at every turn.</p>

<p>This should be of concern to any of his readers who do rely on his interpretations: what other mistakes might he be making? Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I&#8217;m not having a go at John personally, he is a very nice man; I am merely discussing his stance in the public role he has created for himself.</p>

<p>He is clearly a doom-monger, interpreting <a href="http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/369/1934/67.full">a recent report from the Royal Society</a>, which looks as an exercise at a scenario they themselves consider unlikely, as leading to an increase in temperature of 4 degrees by 2060, if there are stronger feedbacks and higher emissions than currently expected. John misrepresents this &#8220;what if&#8221; scenario- and all the IPCC scenarios are also essentially &#8220;what if&#8221; exercises- claiming that &#8220;I’ll be guided by what the experts say, and they are increasingly trending towards sea level rises of upwards of one meter this century&#8221;. No supporting link is given for this; he dismisses the less scary prognosis for Greenland I linked to in the original post as &#8220;thin evidence&#8221;.</p>

<p>One fascinating issue is that of future growth scenarios. John is in accord with many moderate environmentalists, as well of course peak-oilers and general catastrophic doomers as well, that future growth is impossible because of resource constraints:</p>

<blockquote>Lomborg is a libertarian propagandist, the Dr Strangelove of climate science (read ‘The Lomborg Deception’ by Howard Friel of Yale for a thorough debunking). He commissions and recycles “data” from fellow right-wingers like the economists Tol and Nordhaus, ignores the entire canon of actual climate science and then concocts bizarre happy-clappy “We’ll all be millionaires in 2100, so why worry” scenarios that anyone whose nose is not completely blocked will know reeks to the heavens of bullshit. 
</blockquote>

<p>But as with the rest of Lomborg&#8217;s book, the projections for future growth of incomes is taken from the IPCC and other official statistics- the same figures that everyone uses. It seems that the mainstream scientists- the &#8220;consensus view&#8221; on economic growth is severely at odds with John&#8217;s doomer viewpoint, although he then contradicts himself by saying “Current emissions trajectory is worse than the IPCC’s “worst case” A1F1 scenario. It will continue to worsen, barring disasters, as China, India, etc. continue to grow at breakneck speed ”.</p>

<p>So he believes both a richer world (that should be much more capable of adapting to climate change and other problems) is both &#8220;bullshit&#8221; and also inevitable &#8220;at breakneck speed&#8221;.</p>

<p>If the IPCC scenarios are wrong about growth in all their scenarios; if most if not all climate scientists reject the doomer peak oil position of imminent collapse (as I guess they would, although I really dont know for sure); then why should we believe anything else they say?</p>

<p>John implies it is a no-brainer to do whatever we have to do to stop runaway climate change, using the analogy of house insurance. Yes, in a sense this is what the whole of Lomborg&#8217;s book is about: carefully considering the costs of mitigation with the costs of insurance: a cost-benefit analysis.</p>

<p>John and his followers appear to have no concept of what Lomborg is on about at all. For them, he is a fraud pure and simple and anyone who disagrees is stupid and also a fraud. Although it is to his credit that he did allow the post on his site, this was apparently only to allow it (and me) to be attacked and ridiculed, and bizarrly he felt the need to apologize to readers some of whom were &#8220;shocked&#8221; at what I had to say.</p>

<p>There is a not-so subtle cross-over from the actual science- what is happening in the climate- into policy- what, if anything , we should do about it; but try to even raise these issues on ToS and you will be screamed at. Those guys already know all the answers and for them, the debate is closed.</p>

<p>I tried to press John to address some of these issues, but he did indeed prefer to close the debate threatening to remove any more comments I might place there.</p>

<p>What is most troubling about all this is that there is really no need to defend Gore, or attack Lomborg in such a way. The response I received from John and some of his supporters seems closed-minded, and even cultish, and provides plenty of ammunition to those who claim the AGW movement is essentially a religion.</p>

<p>It is a perfectly respectable position to hold, to accept the &#8220;consensus&#8221; view on AGW- that it is happening, that it is a problem- while being careful to question the more zealous predictions of doom that assume a policy response that is in fact far outside the remit of the science itself.</p>

<p>Once this line has been crossed, we are in the territory of ideology and religion. And this is another reason why we should in fact be very skeptical of Al Gore and his followers: Gore is motivated by religious beliefs in the sanctity of nature and New Age ideas of Gaia worship. In his earlier book <em>Life in the balance</em> he writes:</p>

<blockquote>The need for personal equilibrium can be described in a simpler way. The more deeply I search for the roots of the global environmental crisis, the more I am convinced that it is an outer manifestation of an inner crisis&#8230;spiritual&#8230;the search for truths about this ungodly crisis is the search for truths about myself&#8230; (pp. 10-11)</blockquote>

<p>He believes in Ancient Wisdom and Goddess worship:</p>

<blockquote>&#8220;The spiritual sense of our place in nature&#8230;can be traced to the origins of human civilization&#8230;in prehistoric Europe and much of the world was based on the worship of a single earth goddess, who was assumed to be the fount of all life and who radiated harmony among all living things&#8230;the notion that a goddess religion was ubiquitous throughout much of the world until the antecedents of today&#8217;s religions (meaning Christianity, Judaism which he attempts to link to Hinduism), most of which still have a distinctly masculine orientation&#8211;swept out of India and the Near East, almost obliterating belief in the goddess. The last vestige of organized goddess worship was eliminated by Christianity&#8230;it seems obvious that a better understanding of a religious heritage preceding our own by so many thousands of years could offer us new insights&#8230;&#8221; (pp 260)
</blockquote>

<p>More quotes from Gore <a href="http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/ep/gore.htm">here.</a></p>

<p>Just how much of this kind of thinking permeates and informs the environmental movement as a whole- think organic food, chemophobia, the anti-GM movement- and perhaps climate change as well?</p>

<p>Even if we accept climate science at face value- that it has not been corrupted by politics and money- fears of climate change do seem to provide a perfect platform for religious zealotry.</p>

<p><strong>Update:</strong> <em>Interesting interview with Lomborg <a href="http://bit.ly/fSOhXA">here</a>.
Apparently Pachauri, head of the IPCC, who had previously compared Lomborg to Hitler, wrote a &#8220;great blurb&#8221; for Lomborg&#8217;s new book. Maybe John Gibbons should contact Pachauri to tell him how he has been &#8220;had&#8221; by this fraudster.</em></p>

<p><em></p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://zone5.org/2011/02/climate-alarmism-and-the-goddess-reflections-on-a-visit-to-thinkorswim/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>4</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Dan Dennett in Cork: What should replace religion?</title>
		<link>http://zone5.org/2011/01/dan-dennett-in-cork-what-should-replace-religion/</link>
		<comments>http://zone5.org/2011/01/dan-dennett-in-cork-what-should-replace-religion/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 12:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Atheism]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zone5.org/?p=922</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&#8220;Are there any believers in the Rapture here tonight?&#8221; asked an entertaining Professor Dan Dennett to a packed lecture hall in UCC last night, &#8220;and if so, can I have your car?&#8221; Dennett is Professor of Philosophy at Tufts University &#8230; <a href="http://zone5.org/2011/01/dan-dennett-in-cork-what-should-replace-religion/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="/wp-content/uploads/dan_dennett_1286017367.jpg"><img src="/wp-content/uploads/dan_dennett_1286017367-300x209.jpg" alt="" title="dan_dennett_1286017367" width="300" height="209" class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-923" /></a></p>

<p>&#8220;Are there any believers in the Rapture here tonight?&#8221; asked an entertaining Professor Dan Dennett to a packed lecture hall in UCC last night, &#8220;and if so, can I have your car?&#8221;</p>

<p><a href="http://ase.tufts.edu/cogstud/incbios/dennettd/dennettd.htm">Dennett is Professor of Philosophy at Tufts University</a> and one of the infamous Four Horsemen of the so-called New Atheists, along with Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris. He is the author of many books including <em>Breaking the Spell- Religion as a Natural Phenomenon</em></p>

<p>The Professor began by inviting us to consider what is likely to happen to religion in the future: will religions grow and take over the world completely? will they fade away into insignificance? will they morph into what he calls &#8220;creedless moral teams?&#8221; will they gradually fall into disfavour rather like drink-driving has- &#8220;friends don&#8217;t let their friends drive their lives by religion&#8221; ? or the final option: Judgment Day arrives (hence the Rapture quote above).</p>

<p>Whatever happens, argued Dennett, religions will change more in the next 10 years than they have in the past 100, the reason he gave being the internet and modern communications making it much harder for religious leaders to hold their flocks together with ancient dogmas.</p>

<p>But while Dennett clearly sees religions- or organised &#8220;traditional&#8221; religions- declining in influence, with the prospect of churches and mosques becoming museums in the future not unthinkable (even the Vatican?!), the main point of his talk was to consider what are the things religion does well which are good and valuable, and what will replace these functions if religions disappear?</p>

<p>Dennett listed Hope-Love-Beauty-Joy-Moral Teamwork-justice and Freedom as qualities religions have traditionally been very good at providing. One might question all or any of these of course- Justice and Freedom??- but historically religions have been the only organising bodies that could have provided even a semblance of these things, which doesnt mean they have always been successful.</p>

<p>In particular, Dennett feels that religions have often been the only organisations that take in the homeless and the lost in society, and secular alternatives have not usually had this as a priority.</p>

<p>This is partly why Dennett&#8217;s insight in <em>Breaking the Spell</em> is so important: &#8220;Belief in a Deity is optional&#8221; ie, a lot of &#8220;belief&#8221; or faith expressed in religions are actually secondary to the social and communal functions of the churches, and there are in fact a lot of atheist priests and laypeople.</p>

<p>Ceremony is also important, and Dennett played some secular &#8220;Gospel&#8221; music by <a href="http://www.myspace.com/orlandonapiermusic">Orlando Napier</a> which seemed to leave the majority of the young student audience rather bemused: I was slightly embarrassed to be one of only about 4 in the audience of 4-500 hundred who raised their hands to say they actually liked the music!</p>

<p>Moral Teamwork is something that would be fulfilled by possibly new organisations dedicated to the Love of truth and Truthfulness- Dennett here alluded to aspects of the skeptics community such as <a href="http://www.snopes.com/info/top25uls.asp">Snopes</a> but interestingly mentioned<a href="http://www.ted.com/"> TED </a> as providing some of these functions to a secular online community.</p>

<p>&#8220;People want to be good&#8221; Dennett concluded, &#8220;and the sooner we create institutions that can do better than religion, the sooner the more toxic elements of religion will fade away.&#8221;</p>

<p>There followed a lively question and answer session and I was lucky enough to get in my own question, which was to ask to what extent does the professor think New Age Religion might be filling the gap of organised religions like Christianity in the West; 
and to what extent could environmentalism be seen as a secular religion, as some of its most vocal critics claim?</p>

<p>In response to the latter point, Dennett agreed that some of the more extreme aspects of the environmental movement- animal rights activists for example- could be seen as religious- he said he thought some people just seem to have a need to hold banners and take action in defence of some cause or other;</p>

<p>but rather lamely (I thought) finished by saying New Age religion is just &#8220;not very harmful&#8221; which I found surprising, given issues around quack medicine, anti-vaccination etc., but the time had run out by then.</p>

<p>No doubt it depends partly on one&#8217;s perspective- although Ireland provides excellent examples of all that is wrong with religion, I imagine an American confronting extreme right-wing Christian Fundamentalism might see things differently.</p>

<p>All in all an enjoyable evening with the great man, and many thanks to UCC Atheists for staging what one person claimed to be the &#8220;largest gathering of the non-religious ever in Cork&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://zone5.org/2011/01/dan-dennett-in-cork-what-should-replace-religion/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>3</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>On Pascals&#8217; Wager and the Precautionary Principle</title>
		<link>http://zone5.org/2011/01/on-pascals-wager-and-the-precautionary-principle/</link>
		<comments>http://zone5.org/2011/01/on-pascals-wager-and-the-precautionary-principle/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:31:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[climate change]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Genetic Engineering]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zone5.org/?p=921</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Following on from the last post, a review of Simon Fairlie&#8217;s discussion of the the pros and cons of meat eating, I wanted to pick up on an issue he raises which I had not discussed, but which deserves more &#8230; <a href="http://zone5.org/2011/01/on-pascals-wager-and-the-precautionary-principle/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Following on from the last post, a review of Simon Fairlie&#8217;s  discussion of the the pros and cons of meat eating, I wanted to pick up on an issue he raises which I had not discussed, but which deserves more consideration.</p>

<p>In Chapter 13 of Meat: A Benign Extravagance Fairlie discusses the impact of methane production from ruminants such as cows on global warming. As I said in the review, Fairlie considers the claims that this is significant to be a ruse by those who would rather see a push towards more intensive farming methods, and sidesteps the real culprit of greenhouse gas emissions, which is of course the burning of fossil fuels.</p>

<p>However, his take on climate change- the reasons he gives for accepting the reality of AGW, did strike me as curious:</p>

<blockquote>I am not a climate sceptic, but that is not to say that I am convinced that 90% of climate scientists must be right (any more than I believe we live in an expanding universe born out of a big bang just because 90% of scientists think so.) I accept the global warming discourse because of Pascal&#8217;s Wager, otherwise known as the precautionary principle; and because I believe it is an appropriate ideology (or religion if you prefer) for humanity at a time when we are clearly placing too much pressure on the environment through excessive population and consumption. In  this chapter and the next I therefore take the climate change scenario, as modeled by the IPCC, as a premise.
</blockquote>

<p>I find this an extraordinary position to take, but I dont want to pick on Simon Fairlie: what I am wondering is, how many others accept AGW for essentially spurious philosophical or religious reasons- rather than because it is supported by the science?</p>

<p><span id="more-921"></span></p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager">Pascal&#8217;s Wager</a> was originally to do with belief in a deity: in the absence of faith, we cannot be sure God exists, but we cannot be sure He does not exist either- so we might as well believe in Him (or live as if we do)
&#8220;just in case&#8221;- presumably the reasoning being, if we arrive at he Pearly Gates a self-professed atheist, only to find there really is a God, it may the worse for us.</p>

<p>I have deliberately used &#8220;God&#8221; &#8220;He&#8221; and &#8220;Him&#8221; because Pascal was talking about the particular deity promoted by the dominant church of his time, and therein lies the problem, because in the absence of evidence for any such deity, by the same reasoning, one should make the same wager for every conceivable deity- or indeed every imaginable invisible being or entity of any kind- in other words, we should hedge our bets by believing in absolutely every possible eventuality, every god of every religion, and every other conceivable god, demon or spirit as well- &#8220;just in case&#8221;.</p>

<p>I actually remember thinking this through when really quite young- I dont know what age, but I would say somewhere around the age of 12, possibly younger. The gods on offer seemed arbitrary even then- as an equally likely proposition, I reasoned, how do we know there are not Three Gods, called &#8220;Tom, Dick and Harry&#8221; ? I even began imagining different personalities for these three supernatural beings, and inventing sagas and stories about their heavenly exploits.</p>

<p>The converse for belief in the Devil would also be true, putting me in mind of Rowan Atkinson&#8217;s <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFGrQMD6Uqc">&#8220;Welcome to Hell&#8221; sketch.</a></p>

<p>&#8220;Atheists- over here please&#8230; I expect you&#8217;re feeling a right bunch of nitwits aren&#8217;t you?&#8221;</p>

<p>So what happens if we apply this line of reasoning to the environment, particularly climate change?</p>

<p>In fact, the &#8220;Precautionary Principle&#8221; seems to be invoked to inform a great deal of positions within the environmental movement, going back to Norwegian Prime Minister, Gro Harlem Brundtland, and the World
Commission on Environment and Development’s report in 1987, ‘Our Common Future’. The commission said that:</p>

<p>&#8220;Sustainable development is development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs. It contains within it two key concepts:
the concept of ‘needs’, in particular the essential needs of the world’s poor, to which overriding priority should be given; and</p>

<p>the idea of limitations imposed by the state of technology and social organisation on the environment’s ability to meet present and future needs.&#8221;</p>

<p>Commonwealth Secretariat, 2000</p>

<p>Stephen Gardiner of the University of Washington has   written <a href="http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jwcwolf/Papers/Gardiner%20on%20Precautionary%20Principle.pdf">this useful paper</a> outlining the main issues around the use of the Precautionary Principle, which can be formulated as &#8220;weak&#8221; or &#8220;strong&#8221;.</p>

<p>While the &#8220;weak&#8221; version may be too vacuous to be more than just a framework for discussing risks, the &#8220;strong&#8221; kind is so proscriptive as to be stifling: don&#8217;t do anything in case something bad happens. Don&#8217;t get up and go out to work in case you have a car crash; on the other hand, dont just lie there in bed either in case the roof caves in on your head.</p>

<p>Gardiner dismisses the strong version as absurd,but naively claims that</p>

<blockquote>Presumably, no one really accepts this principle.13 It suggests that if there is any
possibility, no matter how small, that an activity might prove harmful, then it
should be banned completely—and this without any consideration for its
possible benefits. On such grounds we would be justified in banning an extremely
successful cure for cancer on the grounds that there was a 0.001% chance that
it might cause a minor rash in some patients. This is surely crazy. If the
precautionary principle entails that, then everyone would agree that it is a bad
principle.</blockquote>

<p>Yet it seems to me that this is exactly the way the PP (Precautionary Principle) is usually used- an Ace pulled out of the pack purely to ban something that people dont agree with or dont understand. This is especially true of Genetic Engeneering- see for example <a href="http://www.pej.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&#038;name=News&#038;file=article&#038;sid=6169">this opinion</a> found randomly in seconds from a google search:</p>

<blockquote>If the precautionary principle had been applied, all forms of genetically engineered foods and crops would never have been tested, approved, and released. At least since 1997, there has been sufficient scientific evidence to justify evoking the precautionary principle and calling for an immediate ban of all genetically engineered food and crops. </blockquote>

<p>Fairlie in the above quotation from his book <em>Meat</em> invokes to PP with regard to climate change. He seems to be saying, we should believe in ACC because the consequences of not believing it (and acting on it) would be catastrophic- a sort of &#8220;Maximin&#8221; approach (as described by Gardiner) whereby precaution can be invoked if the consequences of not being cautious are so extreme that, even if unlikely, the risk outweighs any benefits.</p>

<p>I&#8217;m not sure this works either however- the consequences of a car crash could be fatal, and the risks, while small on any given journey, real enough given that people die on Irish roads every week; but to avoid car journeys on this basis would seem extreme. This kind of cost-benefit analysis is what we all do every day in such cases- we take what we consider an acceptable risk in exchange for tangible benefits (in this case, use of a car).</p>

<p>In the same way, clearly (it seems to me) one of the difficulties of getting people to act on climate change is precisely that it requires giving up too many benefits now for risk aversion in the future. In that respect, the car analogy seems quite apt: business as usual is simply too convenient to give up, even though there may be a serious risk in the future. The risk just doesnt seem real enough, as evidenced by the fact that we have completely failed to reduce emissions thus far, and <a href="http://www.energytribune.com/articles.cfm/6390/Kiss-goodbye-to-Cancun-CO2-goals-says-IEA-chief-economist-">would not have made any significant difference</a> even had we fully implemented Kyoto.</p>

<p>Going back to Fairlie&#8217;s quote, what is more incredible is his comment:</p>

<p><em>
&#8221; &#8230;I believe it is an appropriate ideology (or religion if you prefer) for humanity at a time when we are clearly placing too much pressure on the environment through excessive population and consumption.&#8221;</em></p>

<p>Fairlie is here asserting that belief in ACC and the need to cut emissions least we face certain disaster is an &#8220;appropriate&#8221; ideology or <em>religion</em>- given his assumption (probably the mainstream environmental assumption) that there are too many people consuming too much. What on earth can this mean? Isnt this somehow confusing science (climate science) with religion?</p>

<p>Isn&#8217;t this exactly what many of the <a href="http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/author/jamesdelingpole/">more vocal climate skeptics</a> accuse &#8220;climate alarmism&#8221; of being, a religion?</p>

<p>Surely if ACC is real and there are too many people and we are consuming at an unsustainable rate, then the last thing we would need is a religion to back up the facts. Fairlie is essentially openly admitting that his views on climate change etc are driven by an ideology that we are too many and too greedy.</p>

<p>One interpretation of sustainable development assumes that natural capital, such as forests, wildlife and other natural resources, cannot be substituted for other forms of capital, such as man-made capital. So the precautionary principle often does have a purely ideological basis, the belief that technology and human innovation is in someway inferior or more risky than &#8220;natural&#8221; ways of living- whatever they may be.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.lomborg.com/">Lomborg</a> in particular has argued that the precautionary principle is largely behind concerns over climate change which he believe are hugely over-blown and a result of general hypochondria and a tendency to doom-monger: the sky is always falling, and in some ways the PP is just a way of psychologically hedging our bets by expecting the worst. But failing to act, take risks, be adventurous, also has risks: failure to develop new technologies may also cost us dear and leave us sorry rather than safe.</p>

<p>We have been faced with these dilemmas since we first invented fire. We learn not to go too close to the fire as children, but there is always a risk, and accidents still happen. That&#8217;s life- we have to act, we have to make choices.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://zone5.org/2011/01/on-pascals-wager-and-the-precautionary-principle/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>6</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Ariane Sherine on The Pod Delusion #11</title>
		<link>http://zone5.org/2009/11/ariane-sherine-on-the-pod-delusion-11/</link>
		<comments>http://zone5.org/2009/11/ariane-sherine-on-the-pod-delusion-11/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 11:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Atheism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[climate change]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Podcast]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Science and Rationaltiy]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zone5.org/?p=766</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This week&#8217;s Pod Delusion features a fascinating interview with the wonderful Ariane Sherine, creator of the Atheist Bus campaign and editor of the one essential Christmas gift this year, The Atheists&#8217; Guide to Christmas. The Atheists&#8217; Guide is a brilliant &#8230; <a href="http://zone5.org/2009/11/ariane-sherine-on-the-pod-delusion-11/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This week&#8217;s <a href="http://poddelusion.co.uk/blog/">Pod Delusion</a> features a fascinating interview with the wonderful Ariane Sherine, creator of the Atheist Bus campaign and editor of the one essential Christmas gift this year, The Atheists&#8217; Guide to Christmas.</p>

<p><object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=8,0,0,0" width="352" height="200" id="embed-352x200" align="middle"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="sameDomain"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="false"></param><param name="movie" value="http://www.ipadio.com/embed/v1/embed-352x200.swf?callInView=local_13624&#038;channelInView=WEBSITE_USER_3452&#038;phlogId=undefined&#038;phonecastId=13624"></param><param name="quality" value="high" /><param name="bgcolor" value="#ffffff"></param><embed src="http://www.ipadio.com/embed/v1/embed-352x200.swf?callInView=local_13624&#038;channelInView=WEBSITE_USER_3452&#038;phlogId=undefined&#038;phonecastId=13624" quality="high" bgcolor="#ffffff" width="352" height="200" name="embed-352x200" align="middle" allowScriptAccess="sameDomain" allowFullScreen="false" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"></embed></object></p>

<p><a href="http://zone5.org/wp-content/uploads/The-Atheists-Guide-to-Christmas2.JPG"><img src="http://zone5.org/wp-content/uploads/The-Atheists-Guide-to-Christmas2-150x150.jpg" alt="The Atheist&#039;s Guide to Christmas" title="The Atheist&#039;s Guide to Christmas" width="150" height="150" class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-769" /></a></p>

<p>The Atheists&#8217; Guide is a brilliant anthology of atheist and science writing, comedy, fiction and even a section on silly party games, and the best thing about it is that half the profits go to the <a href="http://www.tht.org.uk/">Terrence Higgins&#8217; Trust  </a></p>

<p>Pod Delusion #11 also includes some other great topical material on the Climate change email leaks (yes, these prove beyond doubt that climate change is a scam) and the <a href="http://www.merseysideskeptics.org.uk/">new campaign against Boots</a> for selling homeopathic remedies that they admit don&#8217;t work. Don&#8217;t miss!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://zone5.org/2009/11/ariane-sherine-on-the-pod-delusion-11/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
		</item>
	</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Page Caching using apc
Database Caching 1/24 queries in 0.006 seconds using apc
Object Caching 350/388 objects using apc

Served from: zone5.org @ 2012-02-04 07:10:25 -->
