Alanna Moore has posted a new comment on my post Woo Woo Everywhere which I reproduce here with my comments:
Alanna Moore here.
Interesting “debate”, a pity that most of the writers are awfully ill-informed on their subjects. (Hard to believe they have time to write this stuff, shouldnt they be out saving the world?). I’m not in my home office, otherwise I would pull out those missing references to investigations of dowsing using scientific instrumentation. But if you have access to a copy of Christopher Bird’s massive volume ‘Divining’ it’s all in there. If there wasnt a scientific aspect to dowsing there wouldnt be geologists in Russia being taught how to dowse and I wouldn’t have met the president of the Russian Scientific Dowsing Society, when I was a speaker at the International Dowsing Congress held in the UK in 2003.
As an international teacher of dowsing, as a qualified permaculture teacher, and as an author of critically acclaimed books on the application of dowsing to enhance life and gardening/farming – I have my reputation to defend here. I dont need ignorant people getting on my back. Especially when they obviously havent read my books (and seen the copious lists of references in them!) You can order my books from Counter Culture in the UK. (They are also published by Acres USA and elsewhere.)
Your credentials are irrelevant. The question is evidence. Dowsing and other paranormal abilities claimed the world over cannot pass the double-blind test- you are obviously aware of this in the comment on your website which I quoted in the post.
I often suggest to my students to use the scientific method to test the usefulness of the experimental technologies that I’m teaching about. In other words – does it help the cabbages to grow bigger or not?
The impression I get from this is that you really have no clue as to what constitutes a scientific test. It is nonsense to say that just because people who are happy to pay you for geomancy courses affirm that they work, that they do in fact work. What you need to do is have them independently verified, not just by people or organisations who are themselves dedicated to supporting theses beliefs in the first place.Your methodology is not in any way scientific and to claim that it is is to pull the wool over people’s eyes. It has no more validity than saying, “The scientists are wrong- the sun actually goes round the earth! Look -you can see it with your own eyes!” Double-blind tests expose these phenomena as being a subtle delusion at best, fraud at worst. It is very easy to make the claims of pseudoscience and give lists of scientific-sounding references, because many people would believe them. No scientist would need to defend the evidence by appeals to their publishing and media credentials and listing important sounding people that they have met or conferences they have attended. The evidence has to stand on its own merits. Dowsers would love to have the credibility that science affords, but when the evidence fails to support their beliefs, they tend to turn on the science that they depend on as being stuck in the wrong paradigm or for being “reductionist” or as you say “just plain rude”. What would be great would be to have the evidence discussed in specifics: where are the double blind tests, independently monitored, peer-reviewed, that show these things actually work? Science has been extremely good at working out things that actually do work and are verifiable- we all depend on many of these things for our daily survival- computers, aeroplanes, motor cars, mobile phones, weather forecasters, climate change modelers… The method is the same for unpacking all these truths, and whether we like technology or hate it, we all use it and we can verify that it works. This is not true of dowsing.
‘New age religion’ has no interest to me. I’m a practical, hands-on gal. That’s what my students love. It’s all geared to improving health and wellbeing, and helping the environment. So why I have been singled out seems most unfair. Why not spit venom at the people who channel info from Mars or wherever and gives no benefit. Dont put me in that bag. Or any bag.
Your views and claims to have everything in common with pseudoscience. They deal with phenomena that are purely subjective and cannot be verified. Since you deal with meaningless and unverifiable concepts such as “earth energies” and biodynamics (which is based on astrology) and belief in fairies, you place yourself quite clearly in the “bag” of new Age Religion and it is extraordinary that you would try to distance yourself from other equally invalid beliefs and practices. The majority of your followers would not be so discerning; by promoting one kind of pseudoscience you inevitably support all variations of it. As should be obvious, the reason I am crtisising your position is specifically because you link these essentially religious beliefs- beliefs as opposed to anything evidence-based- with permaculture, which seems clearly unreasonable. Permaculture is based on what is testable and verifiable, in principle. Much of it is experimental and aspirational; nothing wrong with that, but if something is tried many times and found not to work, it should be abandoned so we can move onto things that might actually be useful. As a permaculture teacher myself, I feel that your work is undermining what permaculture is and doing great harm to it, and undermining my work and others There is no more reason to link permaculture with geomancy than there would be with scientology or Creationism. I have no wish to attack the beliefs of people other than that they get in the way of what I think we should be doing, distracting us from things that are very worthwhile and indeed necessary for us to survive. There are millions of people with irrational beliefs, which are I believe a considerable danger to the safety of our world. I have no interest in spending all my time debunking these beliefs, but you seem to have set yourself up as someone who is using permaculture to promote your own particular beliefs, which have no more validity than other beliefs that your yourself may disparage. Carry on with your beliefs if you must- although I would recommend that you examine them more critically for your own sake- but please, keep them out of permaculture. People who “channel info from Mars” etc or hold any number of other pseudo-scientific beliefs defend those beliefs in exactly the same way that you defend yours- and would probably take great exception to your comments.
Having decided to devote my life to helping the environment 30 years ago I have spent years giving my time in a voluntary capacity to Greenpeace, Permaculture International (I was a director for 6 years) and other environmental organisations, I find it incredulous to be attacked verbally for doing things that I dont do, by someone who purports to also being environmentally minded!
Ive been quite specific to point out what I find contradictory and false in what you write. What is it you think you are being attacked for that you “dont do”? Why dont you actually answer these challenges if you dont agree with them? I have merely pointed to your own words on your own site which explicitly dissuade people from examining your claims critically. But rather than actually engage in the debate and respond to the issues raised, you are merely complaining that I am challenging you at all. Surely that is my democratic right- we have a civic duty to question and challenge irrational beliefs and false claims.
In my experience of the environmental movement, when the ‘people care’ side of things is avoided we cant go forward at all. It is love that makes the world go round. To project ideas from anger or fear is unsustainable and these feelings act like poison in one’s system…
Is it not a requirement of people care that we work together to expose scams and delusions, that we work to consider the evidence and gain the clearest understanding of the world that we can? I dont want to live in a world where anyone can make any claim however outlandish and then simply whine about it when those claims are challenged. There are thousands of people out there making good livings from deception and ignorance, including of course economists who insist on unending growth and people who extol the virtues of faith as justification for their criminal acts. Whatever your own beliefs, Alanna, you surely wish also to live in a world where you can challenge people to provide independent verification for the claims they are selling without fear of persecution.We all have a shared responsibility to be rational, and I find it disingenuous to hide behind the skirts of “People Care” to avoid being called to uphold this responsibility. Your whole comment has really nothing of any substance in it other than to tell us how awfully important you are and, therefore, how you seem to believe you are above reproach, above critisism. To me, it comes over as being extraordinarily naive.
For you bloggers who want to know a little more of what I am promoting, look out for my upcoming You Tube offering on the subject of permaculture and geomancy (or call it geobiology, if you want it to sound more scientific!),
No, Alanna, we want you to be more scientific; sounding more scientific without substance is one of the give-away signs of pseudo-science.
which was filmed for Irish TV on July 26th and will be screened in the autumn coming. (It has been Graham’s voluminous comments that have inspired me to post it!)
Your You Tube offering will mean precisely nothing unless it is independently verified and shown to be using double blinds, and you honestly and openly invite skeptics and critical thinkers to examine what you are doing. If your claims are valid you should have nothing to fear. Science has indeed uncovered many unseen and previously unknown phenomena- micro-waves for example- and there is no reason why honest scientists would not show great interest in phenomena which can be repeated and shown to be valid. It seems extraordinarily arrogant to assume that you know better than the scientific community which you depend on for the technology you use, that your antiquated and outdated “science” is more valid than the universe revealed by Einstein.
Otherwise, I’m much too busy to be engaged in any argument on the subject, I have books to write and films to make, all of which aim to make people more sensitive to and caring for their environment.
Books to write and films to make! My goodness, aren’t you the busy bee? And all those conferences as well. Alanna, you must be such and important person! What a privilege to have such an auspicious person comment on my blog!! Maybe you’ll be in line for a Nobel prize sometime, do invite me to the ceremony. Alanna, you will not help people become more sensitive to and caring for the environment by encouraging any kind of unverifiable belief or pseudoscience. very few ecological scientists would have any time for animistic beliefs and there is a very good reason for this: people who actually study natural systems intensively and with a scientific approach have not found any observational evidence for nature spirits or “earth energies”. Scientists in general are very well aware that first impressions can be misleading and that they need to check and recheck their findings, and allow the closest scrutiny from their peers. Only this honest and courageous approach will lead to genuine new knowledge and understanding.
Grahams public and private comments are verging on the libellous. And if any more negative aspersions are spread about me I will be considering legal advice to help protect my good name.
Alanna Moore
Awe, Alanna, dont be like that. Where is the love? Shouldnt you be out saving the world rather than spending time on legal actions? James Randi has this to say about dowsers and diviners:
**A Compelling Belief** Please be aware of this, however: though you may be puzzled over this seemingly strange conviction embraced by the dowsers, unless you have actually experienced the ideomotor effect at work in yourselves, you cannot have a proper appreciation of how absolutely compelling and irresistible it can be and is. In fact, dowsers are insistent that the disbeliever should try the effect and thereby become convinced of its efficacy; they assure you that once you’ve tried it, you’ll change your mind. And they’re often right in that respect; the dowsing device really seems to move on its own, in response to some sort of external signal or force. As a result of some imagined or real hint from nature water dowsers are often familiar with the topological or geographical signs or conditions that indicate the probability of water in any given spot the operator unconsciously tilts or impels the device, and believes that it is indicating the presence of the sought-after material. That is simply not true. It’s a trick of the mind, a very convincing trick, but a self-deception nonetheless. Now, I am fully aware that the dowsers will read this discourse and will manage to completely ignore it. I regularly receive expressions of pity from them, for my inability to accept the reality that they have discovered. Many applications that are received at the James Randi Educational Foundation from dowsers will express great wonderment at why the million-dollar prize has not already been awarded, when dowsing is such an easy thing, they say, to demonstrate. Many are amazed that dowsing is eligible for the prize at all, since it is so widely accepted and believed in. And each dowser assures me that they are going to be the one to show me the error of my ways, and to dazzle me with a simple demonstration.
So Randi’s opinion after testing many dowsers is that they are genuinely deluded and not usually fraudulent in their claims. The only problem I have with this assessment is that in order to persist with the delusion, it seems to me that a contradiction is unavoidable. We have a responsibility to be rational and to show integrity in our claims, and to apply knowledge with consistency. In the age of the internet, global travel and widely available higher education, we cannot use ignorance as an excuse. If claims like Geomancy are allowed to pass unchallenged, basically, anything goes. Anyone can claim anything, publish an article or book, make a You Tube video and say: It’s science. It is proved.
Unfortunately, this does indeed seem to be the world we live in as we enter the Age of Endarkenment.
In the US, Creationists have been filing lawsuits against educational establishments insisting that Creationism be taught alongside and with equal validity to Evolution. (Biodynamics people take note: Steiner teachers are taught that evolution is wrong, because Steiner himself claimed that people were alive at the time of the dinosaurs.)
I think that given the apparent rise of new Age Religion, this should be of concern to everyone interested in real education about the real world, least 18th Century Spiritualism become the norm in our schools and colleges to.
It seems to me, that anyone who genuinely believes they have access to the spirit world would not need legal recourse; why cant you just cast a spell on me instead or get the fairies to play some nasty trick on me?
`To finish with some kind of constructive suggestions, I would propose the following:
Firstly, please stop linking Permaculture with Geomancy. Admit that there is nothing in the permaculture literature that actually suggests animism or dowsing or any other pseudoscience have anything whatever to do with permaculture. Accept that these are your beliefs, they are not supported by anything that could possibly pass as scientific evidence.
Secondly, if you wish to claim scientific credibility, take James Randi’s Million Dollar challenge. But first, take his advice and learn about scientific testing yourself and test for yourself using blinding whether it really works. Such a step would indeed take courage and demonstrate your honesty and integrity:
I ask all those who wish to claim the prize based upon their dowsing skills to first try a double-blind test of their abilities. We at the JREF can advise you how to design such a test protocol. You will find, I assure you, that the description above of the ideomotor effect will be proven valid. And I know full well that you, as a dowser, will refuse this advice and believe that, for you, such a procedure is not necessary. I base this conclusion on my many years of handling dowsing claimants.
Thirdly, and this is really my advice to help you, remove the silly reference to the Austrailian Skeptics on your geomancy page. Replace it instead with information about pseudoscience and critical thinking and make it clear to your readers that there is no evidence for dowsing or other paranormal phenomena; encourage people to think for themselves, assess the evidence carefully, and not take anything on faith.
If you do these things, then you will have no need to feel singled out for critisism by me or anyone else, and I will feel that you are indeed working to help people care more for the environment. .
17 Comments
Hold tight Graham, I think the nature spirits will be coming for you
or maybe it’ll be the ‘big 10 metre long trolls’ that Alanna seems to believe as you can see on the video on her site:
http://www.geomantica.com/
I am speechless and thus will say no more!
I missed Alanna Moore’s reply on the original thread, very interesting and I think it demonstrates a point I made earlier. You can’t have a reasoned argument with someone who holds a faith based position, rational debate becomes even harder when they invoke the gods of the law courts.
Perhaps you should consider investing in a stone circle to ground those negative energies?
Could you kindly remove all references to me plus my contact details from your blog. You are infringing my privacy as well as my religious freedom (I am an animist pagan, bythe way – and there’s nothing new-age about paganism). Your behaviour is detrimental to the good name of permaculture. I suggest you stick to growing veges (if you are at all capable) and stop discussing things and people that you know nothing about. The sort of ignorance that you display so flagrantly is best kept to oneself.
Alanna Moore
Hi Graham Fascinating discussion. I do think it is important though that one remains respectful and not become abusive. You write;
“Books to write and films to make! My goodness, aren’t you the busy bee? And all those conferences as well. Alanna, you must be such and important person! What a privilege to have such an auspicious person comment on my blog!!”
This reads to me as being quite spiteful and puerile, and I don’t think such a jeering tone has any place in what you are presenting as being a rational, balanced, scientific discussion. If I am in a debate with someone about the views I hold, and that person starts being personally insulting, and using the tone you use in that passage, I would walk at that point. Who needs that? We can’t expect people to engage in a creative discussion of these issues and then subject them to that kind of abuse.
While you may not agree with Alanna, she is still a human being worthy of being treated with respect and dignity, and it comes as no surprise the defensive reaction she puts forward at the end of that section. While you may be able to take that kind of grief from other people, it is unreasonable to expect that everyone can, and indeed whether they ought to be expected to take that as part of a reasoned debate. While I think this is a very valid discussion, and you are right to question the linking of permaculture and geomancy, and to press for more scientific proof, I think to adopt this tone will only increase divisiveness, rather than promote dialogue. I would suggest that, for that section, an apology is in order…
Alanna – nice of you to join the discussion, and a shame that your contribution is again an attempt to close it down.
I just don’t get the privacy complaint.
The original article and follow up letters appeared in a publication available from any UK newsagent.
Wasn’t all of the rest of the information on your beliefs placed by you on a public (your) website?
As for religious freedom, no one has suggested that your freedom to believe in or worship what or who want should be curtailed.
When the original article was printed my objection was that in associating your beliefs with permaculture you risked damaging it at a critical time. You put yourself in the public eye, you wrote the article, your words, your choice.
Geobiology is a legitimate field of peer-reviewed scientific research. Geomancy is not.
Thanks Rob. (So there are other humans also writing in this blog, that’s a relief!)
I am a geobiologist, a geomancer and a dowser. I am not a scientist and neither is GS.
I studied permaculture 21 years ago and have been either perusing or involved in the permaculture media for many years. The old this-isn’t-scientific-enough debate in permaculture is dead on the ground and a total waste of energy… (And, by the way, I never discuss what I do with sceptics, it’s a waste of time!)
I just dont know why my name and personal email address remains stuck in the message fields of this blog, as if prompting people to write hate mail to me. I’ver surely had enough of that!
The idea that permaculture can be an eco-spiritual practise can be very inspiring to some people (obviously it’s not for everyone). Permaculture is a discipline of landscape design, after all, and in pre-Christian times all people considered the Earth sacred and interacted with the energies they perceived in it. It was a blasphemy to destroy the environment. A return to such an ethic wouldn’t go astray. I shall continue to promote a more sensitive style of permaculture design (as we don’t live in a GS dictatorship). Permaculture has been too macho for too long.
Society is kept in a state of peace when there’s respect for the diversity of cultural beliefs. We can do without GS’s self styled Grand Inquisition. Going on the warpath is stupid, especially when it’s done in such an infantile tone. I’ve had enough patronising insults!
And I want my email address removed from here too!
Old Knowledge can frequently be substituted for Old Religion.
I’m an electronic engineer by trade, and I work in the pharmaceutical, brewing and dairy industries.
So I have no vested interest in any way here.
However, doing things according to old natural cycles, as is ridiculed here, is inherent in all of the industries I work. People do it because it works for them, even if they didn’t fully understand why it works. Mocking it because you don’t understand how it works just reveals one’s own gross ignorance and narrow-mindedness.
So, it occurs to me that the attack on Alanna Moore (whom I don’t know and have never met), for promoting a system of divining that has worked for generations (and Government Departments have engaged the services of dowsers for years), is at best a misguided attempt to appear knowledgeable, and at worse is the type of sneery, self congratulatory, know-it-all approach that serves only to alienate those that should be assisting each other.
Of the many ways that people use knowledge that works, even though we don’t fully understand how, I’ll just include:
For example: Milk collected at night has a higher level of seratonin.
One very popular product in Ireland at the moment is milk by Lullaby Dairies (it’s in all Superqinn stores) It’s used as a natural bedtime sleep promoter, as seratonin has proveable sleep enhancing effects.
Wyeth Medica Ireland makes the contraceptive pill, a hormonally based medicine, which is dispensed in 21day+7day break form. When I asked the head of pharmacology why it used this timing, he said it was because the normal female hormonal cycle was 28 days, in common with moon cycles (he made complicated allowances for the extra day) Wyeth Medica are a multi-billion dollar corporation, and don’t do silly things. Maybe they just research a little deeper than most.
Guinness (Diageo) use a particular seaweed extract to maintain the head on the Pint of Black Stuff. (One of the reasons Guinness is so rich in iron, and is given to blood doners after donation in Ireland, and is recommended to pregnant women in moderation). This seaweed is collected at the full moon, as it’s nutrient cycle maximises it usefulness at this time. No-one knows why, it just does.
Guinness are a multi-billion dollar corporation, and don’t do silly things. Maybe they just research a little deeper than most, and realise that the old traditions are useful additions to modern technology. They’ve been using the same methods for 300 years (and the exact same yeastculture). Because it works. And at one of their international plants (in Nigeria, if I remember correctly) they required a source of water. After a failed geo-tech survey, thy employed a dowser, and got what they needed.
Enough said?
We all have the planet’s best interest at heart. Does it matter if the motivation is Gaian philosophy, Old Religions, self interest, familial loyalty or even, (dare I say it), profit, if our methods conspire to produce the same results?
So include all those who share your peramculture ambitions, even if you don’t fully understand their way of operating. To do otherwise is to do the planet a disservice, and it needs all the help it can get.
Ray
P.S. Before I’m called a sell-out, I should note that my employment in the multi-national industries is in an environmental monitoring capacity, ensuring licence adherence. And I’m a member of the Green Party Science and Technology Advisory Group.
Alanna I am pretty sure your contact details etc do not appear on this blog when viewed by others- there is no reason they would be and I cant see them when I look at the page even when Im logged in- I think it is just that when you leave a comment on WordPress it shows your email as you will have filled it in in the form. If there is anything amiss I will certainly sort it out and apologies in advance.
Faith and science can go hand in hand when working to protect the planet – as long as we identify each for what it is.
Pagan philosophy and practice have a long history of respect and care for the earth. But to call them scientific is about as ludicrous as calling Christianity scientific. Both are matters of faith and need to be respected as such.
Alanna is well respected as a geomancer, but she is not, as far as I am aware, a scientist, and what she does is not scientifically based. To claim such is to the detriment of both earth-based religion and earth-based science.
Just my 2c.
The problem with respecting everyone’s right to believe what they like and never challenging it, is that voodoo, claptrap and dangerous pernicious nonsense just keeps spreading.
All sane people would, for instance, contest the ban on teaching evolution in schools, but what argument could an astrologist or a bio-dynamic exponent use? None, because they are in the same positon as the religious zealots – no evidence, yet demanding the right to keep spouting their nonsense.
So, I applaud your stand, Graham – it’s vital and we should all challenge more. But wonder whether this current debate illustrates the need not only to challenge, but also persuade. Giving well-meaning people who have dug themselves a cosy hole plenty of room and encouragement to climb out again? Allana, who after all is a colleague of yours, would perhaps make a fine convert and a useful ally when she’s had a chance to calm down and plenty of space to re-evaluate her position.. (and just imagine the career prospects for such a poacher-turned-gamekeeper!)
Tim
@Ray
Interesting points but mostly irrelevant to the discussion. We know or are at least beginning to understand the action of serotonin why talk about natural cycles when we have a fairly clear idea of why this milk might work.
The female reproductive cycle can be observed and measured scientifically, it’s also often a little more varied than 28 days unless regulated artificially.
Sea weed collection has a nice direct conection to the tides and so to the moon, nothing mystical there.
I’ve already accepted there are documented cases of dowsing success, perhaps just because those who pay dowsers who fail are less inclined to make a noise about it?
If I had a product that sold like guinness I’d also be inclined not to change yeast culture if I could.
Your examples are good because with science we can explain what is happening. We don’t need to talk about natural energy, fairies or trolls, the action is clear and from this we can improve our understanding further.
I see Alanna uses rock dust in some of her work, there may be value in this, there is some evidence that rock dust or quarry waste as my dad calls it has some value. We don’t need to invoke spirits, we can get down to the real mechanism at work here.
More generally
I appreciate Rob’s point, yes we should treat Alanna with respect, but that doesn’t mean we just have to accept her article uncritically. If you follow the thread back to the comment that restarted the discussion, it started calling commentators ill informed and ended with a vague threat of legal action. I didn’t feel much respect there. My original complaint was with PC magazine not with Ms Moore, she chose to enter the discussion.
As someone who lived through the attempts by the church of scientology to silence their critics on usenet the approach rubbed at a raw nerve.
Ray I would add to George’s response, there is no reason to suppose that large corporations “do not do silly things”- they may very well do, in fact. They are not automatons, but made up by human beings with all their frailties and prejudices. Prince Charles is one of the great advocates of alternative therapies; the Blair’s are well known for their interest in all things woo-woo, as are many other powerful people. That is precisely why these beliefs need to be challenged- people who believe their own delusions are dangerous. However, I have not seen any reputable evidence that for example oil companies have used dowsers, but even if they did, that is certainly not how the vast majority of oil has been found, which is by the science of geology. The Nigerian example you give can be explained by the possibility that a local dowser may have a better knowledge of where water may be likely to be found. I have linked to all the relevant research throughout all these discussions. Dowsing does not work, there are other more mundane reasons for its apparent success. This is every bit as much a scientific truth as the earth orbiting the sun.
Rob: how about asking Alanna for an apology for her mudslinging? You are one of the commentators she refers to as being misinformed. Do you really want to live in a world without Steve Bell? Not that I am in any way comparing myself with such people, but surely someone like Alanna who has placed herself so prominently in the public eye and responds to my lengthy and detailed critique of her work with nothing but a ridiculously pompous list of her credentials should expect to take a bit of slagging. If you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you dont like my style, then why dont YOU do more work to stem the spread of these beliefs, because if you and other community leaders, teachers and educators etc. continue to be so complacent, we are only going to sink futher into the Age of Endarkenment. My sarcasm is necessary, IMO, to try to expose the hypocrisy of Moore’s stance. Your insistence on political correctness merely results in you playing the role of the apologist for these beliefs. Come on man, wake up- we are not having a genteel if heated debate about different kinds of mulch or plant guilds- we are talking TEN- METER- LONG- TROLLS. Now that is a LONG troll…
I agree with Graham that persons (however accomplished) with their own agendas should not hijack permaculture to promote their personal beliefs which have nothing specifically to do with the core curriculum.. One of the great things about permaculture is that it has an established clear identity with its curriculum based on Mollison’s “Designers’Manual,” (1988) Thus it is a readily replicated “meme.” The fame it has gathered (it’s become a hpousehold word in the UK & Australia) means it can convey a sort of legitimacy (and a means of making good money on teaching classes) to anyone who wants to hitch their trip to the permie wagon. Because permaculture is a whole systems discipline, people seem to think it will admit of anything. That can be exploited and objections should be made to those doing that exploitation to further their own agendas by those who care about the good reputation and clear identity of this discipline. The authority role of “teacher” is easily abused. Permaculture is based on observation of natural phenomena. Thus it is science-based. It is not religious. It has a strong ethical basis, “earth care, people care, fair share.” Thus it has a moral compass. But that is still not a religion, nor is ethics irrational. On the contrary these ethics are a wonderfully rational choice. Here in the States many permie teachers try to add their hobby-horse to the agenda; whether it be personal growth processes or political activist training. I have not liked seeing that. Perhaps it’s inevitable that individuals will bring their special lights and favorite flavors to their teachings. This adds good diversity –so long as these flavors don’t threaten to overwhelm the essence of the permaculture discipline. I agree it has no place for trolls or fairies.
A quote from Neils Bohr, emminent scientist: “In our [scientific] descriptions of nature the purpose is not to disclose the real essence of the phenomea, but only to track down, so far as it is possible, [provable] relations between the manifold aspects of our experience.” Permaculture design places elements, as far as possible, into beneficial relations with one another. The “real essence,” the transrational, can be found (and always has been found) in religion, in music, in experiences of the transcendent: beauty, truth, love. And possibly even trolls. (as poetic metaphor!)
Hmmmm. I’m a long-time permaculture devotee, got all the books, have converted the backyard into an edible oasis and pray to Saints Bill M and David H every time I weed the vege bed. I participated in a workshop with Alanna last year and a part of her Stone Age Farming workshop (which from the book seemed to be at least partially grounded in some sort of fact/attaining good results) involved standing around a ‘tower of power’ filled with basalt and chanting ‘om’. I had no problem with the notion that re-mineralising the soil (the main thrust of the book) might be the key to promoting better growth and healthier vege and livestock. But I wasn’t terribly sure where the chanting fitted into the equation, nor the building of a ‘tower’. On the day I did her course, her presentation was rambling, she seemed tetchy if anyone asked questions and she checked her watch…a lot. Not exactly imparting a great teacher vibe. But it was the dowsing (which actually consumed 3/4 of the day) that annoyed me most, and I’m not a close-minded person. I actually know some dowsers and the chance to have a go initially appealed. To say I was disappointed was an understatement (and I left quite a few pounds lighter in the wallet). I won’t be recommending anyone attend Alanna’s courses, which don’t really offer much other than pendulum swinging (and you don’t even really get coached on how it should be done – I saw several women whizzing around their pendulums with vigorous wrist movements and silly grins on their faces. I was later informed by an old and respected dowser that outside forces are supposed to move through the body and jiggle the rods or pendulum). Rather, I will recommend her Stone Age Farming book and tell people to leave it at that or, one better, to peruse the Geomantica website and pick and choose what they will find useful. I don’t doubt Alanna has significant experience in gardening, and permaculture in particular. She is also something of a chicken guru and amateur doco maker. But this credential of geobiologist – so is she a qualified biologist specialising in biology and geology? Somehow I suspect not. That would imply a scientific background (and degree), but Alanna has already pointed out that she is no scientist. But let me end on a positive note. It is better, I think, to stick to what works in a garden or landscape, and if you think saying ‘om’ while you’re spreading the chook manure gets you a result, keep doing it (just don’t forget to keep spreading the shit as well!).
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